Latest Posts by playpirateswithyou - Page 2

I'll never get over the implications of zoro sacrificing himself for luffy and the full scope of that.

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It's WILD.

Cause Luffy -- he's unconscious. He doesn't even know Kuma was there. And we'd never met Kuma till he shows up after luffy has already stretched himself to his absolute limit and passed out to recover in the belief he and everyone was safe.

Then we have Zoro, who flat out told Luffy, if he gets in the way of his dreams, he'll force Luffy to commit hara kiri, which according to Google, is ritual suicide by disembowelment with a sword. It was formerly practiced in Japan by samurai as an honorable alternative to disgrace or execution. That's the stipulation he joins the crew with.

And like, yeah, after Mihawk slices him and tells him to live, to get stronger, so that one day Zoro may surpass him, Zoro doesny really acknowledged that. Instead, his only response is to pick up Wado Ichimonji, the sword of his long dead friend and of which he made his inital vow of becoming the world's greatest swordsman, to carry on kunia's dream in her honor, Zoro then proceeds to swear to never lose again because it's be embarrassing for Luffy as Pirate King.

And this whole scene is wild as well, because mans was basically on deaths door and all he could think about was how it'd disgrace luffy is he lost again. Like???

But this scene, it makes it apparent that Zoro's dream isn't just for himself and Kunia, it's shared by Luffy now as well.

Which, we know Luffy. Every crew members dream is a dream Luffy takes on as personally as his own. He shoulders those dreams and the weight of making them a reality as seriously as his own dream of becoming king of the pirates. Their dreams are Luffy's now too.

This is different than that tho. Because while the dream was shouldered by Luffy, it was still for Zoro's own like... fullflillment? Idk how to convey it. It was still wholy Zoro's, it belonged to Zoro. But by saying it'd be embarrassing for Luffy, or a disappointment, for Zoro to lose again before he becomes world's greatest swordsman-- it's now theirs in a way it wasn't. He's not JUST becoming the world's greatest swordsman, he's becoming the world's greatest swordsman because it's what Luffy deserves. He's becoming the world's greatest swordsman because Luffy's gonna be King of the Pirates and for Zoro to give him anything less than the world's greatest swordsman is a disappointment.

But that's still -- becoming the world's greatest swordsman is still his... the most important thing to him. He just has another reason besides Kunia and himself now. But you still don't get the sense that like... I dont think the zoro who loses to mihawk would be willing to sacrifice himself on the way zoro on thriller bark did.

Because while Zoro has never been afraid of dying, that was because he'd rather die trying to become the world's greatest swordsman then to not have tried at all. It's a mindset he shares with Luffy. This all or nothing mentality, right?

Neither of them have ever been afraid of dying as long as it's in pursuit of their dream.

But in Thriller Bark, he's not dying in pursuit of his dream. When he offers his head in exchange for Luffy's, he's effectively saying goodbye at ever achieving it, actually.

And he knows that, and you can see it jn the way he lays his swords down, because what use does he have for them if he's dead?

Kuma even says it here, "You have such an ambition, and yet you're saying that you're willing to take his man's place?"

He's not just offering his life in exchange for Luffy's, it's his dream he's exchanging too.

In doing this, it's made known that Luffy now holds more importance over Zoro's life, his swords, and his dreams.

Because this act, this sacrifice he makes, him dying in this way, isn't in service of dream and ambition, it's in service to his captain and king.

And idk how we're meant to be normal about this.

On chapter 485, after Kuma witnessed Zoro's heroic sacrifice he made that comment:

On chapter 1140, after Zoro jumped in to protect Luffy Gaban made a similar comment:

Every once in a while I think again about the end of Thriller Bark and feel completely insane and ill about Zoro's sacrifice, FOR LUFFY, specifically (you know, the character Kuma's threat was directed at). It wasn't even that long into traveling together, a few months maybe, yet Zoro was ready to give up everything in that moment - in the chapter with Kuma appearing being titled The End of the Dream ! - to protect his crew and Luffy, so he could continue in his journey.

Since Luffy and Zoro met, they always understand how words and promises were imporant to them - with Luffy punching Helmeppo in ch. 3 for lying to Zoro. Zoro learnt how serious Luffy was about his dream, and soon he realized he backed up his words with actions as well - untiying Zoro and giving him his swords back - his biggest treasures. It meant that Zoro could be honest and honor-bound in the same way to Luffy, to gain this mutual respect and trust between them since day 1. To wield his swords to protect both Luffy and later their whole crew, and to step in a way between Luffy and danger.

He was being actually more upset that Sanji got up from the previous Kuma's attack and interrupted their fight - Zoro was trying to keep the whole crew safe by this exchange for Luffy's head - if Sanji was offering his life for Luffy half dead and without much strength left to fight for himself (he started the offering of his own life already believing he woudn't survive, with a "you should find a new cook"), then this very specific sacrifice would be meaningless to the crew (- if this arc was taking place post WCI, then it would turn out very differently, with the strength of Sanji believing in Luffy, but it wasn't his moment during this scene) - it would hurt them more than help them, because as much as Zoro was prepared to die as well, he was prepared to keep fighting until the last breath.

Zoro was thinking he might die - Kuma's words were pretty certain he WOULD die - but he still had the willingness and strength to take on the deal for Luffy, for his captain and his crew. ("if i die here, it just means I wasn't worth much to begin with" this line he says times and times again during the overall story, like in Rogue Town throwing Kitetsu and waiting if it would cut off his arm, up until standing against King in Wano "it's my power that was lacking", and all the other times he was questioning his worth - it's something he tempts the fates he doesn't believe in, to actually harm him, to take his strength away if he doesn't deserve to survive. and it's him saying he knows and accepts his own weaknesses - of not being strong enough (in comparison to Sanji in this example), and always fights through them.)

He threw away his swords, including Wado Ichimonji - literally throwing aside his and Kuina's dream, to compell Kuma into a duel (with the anime playing 'The Very Very Very Strongest' when Zoro bowed down and pleaded Kuma, offering him his head instead of Luffy's) so Kuma wouldn't go after the crew and specifically Luffy later - no matter the outcome if Zoro would surive or not.

And then, he was actually strong enough to survive taking his captain's fatigue, agony and pain! Possibly being the only one who could survive taking Luffy's pain.

Zoro could have back out when Kuma offered him the 'taste' of the pain, with the realization of the scale of the hurt with the very possibility of dying from it. But that wouldn't be Zoro now, would it? He accepted and took all of Luffy's pain so his captain wouldn't have to suffer or die, and when they found him afterwards, he still kept standing, tense with the fatigue but alive! (again, with anime adding the music of 'Luffy's Fierce Attack' to underline the importance between these two).

He was training for this since the beginning - to become stronger to shoulder the pain of his crew if necessary. (And not only that - he was preparing for that so another Kuina incident didn't have to happen). He was the first one to fight one of the Warlords before anything really began: his fight with Mihawk at Baratie really set the tone and his own goals to overcome - a glimpse to see on how much different levels the Warlords actually were in comparison to Zoro, Luffy and the others, and if they were supposed to beat them so Luffy could become the Pirate King, that always meant to be ready and to get even stronger than them.

(small spoiler for egghead, ch. 1102: seeing Kuma (a Warlord at that time) remembering this Thriller Bark event later, during Egghead arc, and thinking that even he might have passed out from the pain, makes it all the more meaningful that it was Zoro who took the pain and withstood it - establishing how high was the strength of his willpower, already before timeskip.)

There could be so many other nuances and details from these last few chapters of this arc, and even what this deal meant for the following arcs! Zoro was still in pain on Sabaody, and because of that the crew wasn't as strong as it could have been (not to say they would have a chance anyway, knowing what all was in the motion).

The next is the tragedy and beauty of LUFFY never finding out about this. Half of the crew knew: Sanji, Brook and Robin knew the details, but would never tell Luffy - and that shows their loyalty to both Luffy and Zoro (and Zoro's decision). Luffy woke up and first thing he did was to jump up and down, excited not to be weighted down by his injuries, and only seeing his swordsman being down with injuries so severe he was out more days afterwards, knowing that something else attacked them (him = Zoro), after he was passed out from the fight against Moria, brought down his mood (even if it's not much noticable, but the change into subtle worry is there in the few next chapters).

"I can't explain it either!" - meaning he was thinking about it too, possibly how weird it was for him to move normally after such long fight. We don't really ever hear/see Luffy thinking about something, except when it's mentioned how he came up with a solution or idea, telling us there's more to Luffy than just being straightforward in his goals and speech. With Luffy being sometimes very emotionally intelligent when he wants to be, he could have figured it out from all these other people in the room asking similar questions and deducing. Even Usopp was putting two and two togehter. We might never find out if Luffy actuallly knows or not. Luffy probably wouldn't ask Zoro directly, especially if Zoro wouldn't tell first and didn't want to talk about it

- because for Zoro, nothing happened! Nothing, that would compromise his and Luffy's first promise. For Zoro to become the Strongest he couldn't back down from the duel with Kuma (just like before with his duel with Mihawk at Baratie. When he's faced with something he swore to overcome, he can't back down or evade. Even back then Luffy understood that as he held back Johnny and Yosaku, but Sanji was perplexed how far Zoro (and Luffy) would go to reach their dreams). When Sanji was asking him in front of Kuma "What about your dream?" Zoro was still thinking about his dream- it was just that the context has changed, it changed into a journey. His dream is the most important thing, but it wouldn't mean much, if, when on his way to accomplish that, he would betray his other words and promises.

the cut that always bleeds

"Seems like you found something more important than your own ambition, eh Roronoa?"

What a clumsy fool. When a man like you swallows his pride, it's always for someone else.

When Zoro begged for Luffy twice.