Character Meta - Blog Posts

lostpimplepatch

5 months ago

Imo this is good writing of a flawed older sibling trying not to repeat his father's mistakes but making new ones. We see that Robins value the solidarity between robins in the form of treating each other like equals and keeping each other informed. Because they all have a deep need for personal freedom and are all control freaks to some extent. Bruce's only action to show he cared or in their eyes to punish them for a "miss", was to take away their means to "fix that miss", leading to them freaking out over a loss of control.

It's giving a child the respect and autonomy they want vs doing what is necessary for them even if they can't see it. And the biggest problem with these two options is that neither involve the adult following the rules they set. Batman will not stay back from vigilantism for the injuries a Robin would be benched for and so any rules set are inherently seen as demeaning and proof of a lack of trust in the Robin.

Difference between Bruce and Dick as Batman.

So I know that there's a lot of temptation to compare Bruce as Batman to Dick or Damian, and Dick as Batman to Damian, often with a "oh well obviously Bruce was meaner/Dick was nicer", but I do think they have a neat contrast that fandom often overlooks (as well as some parallels).

comic panels showing leslie thompkins leaning over an injure dick grayson (as a kid). she turns to bruce, who is in the foreground, looking away, and says "Bruce what in god's name happened to this boy? He looks like he's been through a thresher!" Bruce says "Just take care of him, Leslie. Alfred will explain everything." Leslie says "you're not leaving?" Bruce says "I'm sorry, I have to go"

Robin: Year One #3

on a rooftop in the rain, bruce wayne (batman) is approaching the joker and the joker has a gun on him. bruce says "I'll give you purity..." Joker says "Uh, uh, uh -- I don't share your absurd anti-firearms fetish, remember --" We see dick grayson (robin, as an adult) climbing up on the roof with a grapple behind joker. joker turns and shoots him in the shoulder.

bruce shoves the joker down while shouting "robin!" and runs to dick as dick falls. he looks over the side of the building to check on dick and says "Robin? My god, robin --" We see the joker smiling, and dick's legs have been tangled up in the grapple, preventing him from falling to the ground

dick lifts himself up, trying to grab the ropes that are holding his legs, and says "I... I can make it, Batman -- get him..." bruce asks "Can you hang on, son? I have a madman to deal with --" dick, who now is holding onto the rope with his arms, says "do it."

Batmatn #408

dick as batman is crouched over a bleeding damian as robin. dick says "Don't move! How much pain are you in?" Damian says "Pain? I'm paralyzed below the waist. I can't feel anything at all. Just tell... tell that girl we're even." Jason todd says "Don't you see? Did ou see what I just did?" Dick stands up, and yells at Jason and says "You brought a monster to gotham! You dragged all of us into your world of chaos! And we just saved your miserable life, Jason!"

dick continues: What was this? Some kind of suicide attempt? What were you thinking?" Jason reaches a hand out and says "You don't have the stones to protect his city. And I can take you down any day! So let's have your best shot, 'batman"!"

dick reaches a hand out, almost gently, and says "Look at yourself, Jason. you're a mess. Everything's a mess. Stop all this... and let us help you."

we see commissioner gordon now, mostly in shadow, as dick has gone back to kneeling near damian. Gordon says "... my men say there's no sign of flamingo. Looks like he's buried under all that rubble. How's the boy?" Dick says "He was shot five times at close range, commissioner. He's in a bad way. But Robin's a tough kid, right?"

Batman and Robin #6

Dick and Bruce both will deal with whatever current threat exists, before fully helping wounded Robin, getting a verbal "I'm fine" confirmation. They clearly do care about Robin. But they also have an obligation to protect people Bruce tries to physically stop joker. Jason's not fighting Dick, but he is trying to talk him down and talk him into getting help, like he did in Battle for the Cowl. The characters also generally avoid a wounded Robin -- it's just easier to see for Bruce, because Leslie calls Bruce out on it "you're leaving (to go deal with this?)" whereas no one questions Dick leaving Damian once he's got medical care and doing his own mission to revive zombie bruce. I imagine this is partially from guilt (we do see Bruce blaming himself for Dick's close call, and Dick framing Damian as his responsibility in Battle for the Cowl) and also possible due to the whole 'batman has a job, robin's physically OK now so time to help protect people' thing.

A strong difference is after the character's get injured and treated. Bruce becomes overprotective, and continues being emotionally distant, which understandably upsets Dick. He is so overprotective he benches Dick each time he is wounded seriously, and that creates friction between them.

next comics show a different art style, the art style from robin: year one. jim Gordon, on the roof of the police station at night, says "If I find out otherwise, everything changes between us. I meant what I said before." Bruce wayne (as batman) has his back to jim and swirls his grapple, preparing to leave. He says "Robin's retired. You have my word."

comic panels showing dick grayson, arm in a sling and bandages on his chest, sitting up in bed. bruce wayne is standing next to him and putting a hand on his shoulder. Dick says "you're alive...?" Bruce says "easy, it's okay. You were dreaming." Bruce walks to the window and looks out, so his back is to dick. he asks "how do you feel?" Dick says "Like... like I fell off a building... twice." Dick smiles and says "Occupational hazard, right? Just give me a couple of weeks... and I'll be back out there with you." Bruce looks down and says "No, dick..."

dick looks surprised and asks "What?" Bruce says "This was all a terrible error in judgment. Gordon was right. You're just a boy .what the hell was I thinking?" Dick says "Bruce... what are you saying?"

Robin: Year One

next comic panels are in 1980s style, with adult dick, injured in bed with bandages, bruce as batman (with his mask off) and alfred pennyworth. alfred is applying a bandage to dick. dick says "Well I'm not a child -- and I'm not dead, either! I just can't go along with what you're saying." Bruce says "What, that the joker's the meanest of mean little kids?" Dick says "No -- that I'm a kid! And that 'Robin' is better off left dead --" Bruce cuts him off "You almost did die tonight, dick -- and had you, the joker would not have been responsible. I would."

dick asks "Are you saying that it hasn't been great? That I haven't been your strong right arm?" Bruce says "You have, son -- but we've been lucky. In what I do, there is no place for a child." DIck clenches his hands in a fist and says "A child!" Alfred leans over him and touches his shoulder. he says "don't excite yourself, master dick -- you've been wounded." DIck says "I'll say I've been wounded -- plenty of times, but never this deep --" Bruce says "If by that you mean I've wounded you, son, I'm sorry. And you are a man now, -- man enough to accepte my decision"

Batman #408

Contrast this to Dick's general lack of protectiveness. Nothing changes when Damian gets wounded as Robin. Which works well (emotionally) for Damian and it works for the conventions of the genre.

Dick is generally not portrayed as very emotionally overprotective when Damian is injured, and when Damian is captured, he often expresses more verbal concern for the people who captured Damian than Damian himself.

a comic panel showing dick as batman, leaving damian (in civilian clothes, in a neck brace) on a building as he shoots his grapple and jumps off. Dick says "My responsibility. Stay right here and no more jumping around -- you're lucky you're still able to walk. And I'm in the middle of a serious team up"

Batman and Robin #9 - Damian, with a new metal spine, got thrown off a building by the zombie batman dick accidentally revived.

next comic panel shows dick grayson as batman and commissioner gordon in a room in front of a screen. dick runs towards the viewer, grimacing, and says "Tell your men to keep him away from the joker! We're on our way. Damn!"

dick hops in his batmobile and says "He could kill him!" JIm gordon follows him and fastens his seatbelt. he says "my god. Does that poor kid have any idea what he's dealing with?" Dick says "It's not him. It's the joker I'm worried about.

Batman and Robin #13

comic panel showing the batmobile driving down the street, police cars on the side. we do not see renee montoya (the question) and dick grayson (batman) in the batmobile, but they are there. there is a dialogue bubble from the passenger's side (renee) and she says "looks like envy had a visit. she has jackson canton." Dick says "Which means Robin was found out." Renee says "it'll be okay." Dick says "yeah, you don't know this robin..."

there's a panel showing damian as robin, next to azrael (michael lane) who has a sword drawn and they are fighting some people one of whom is a glowing woman. dick's dialogue bubble continues "... it's not him i'm worried about."

Detective comics annual #11

I should note: I think it would be uncharitable to assume that Dick expressing more verbal concern that Damian will hurt the supervillains who have him kidnapped means Dick doesn't care about Damian. We see in Batman and Robin some of Dick being worried when Damian is shot, and we see Dick telling Azrael they need to find a quicker way to get to Damian when Azrael is talking about how to find the guys who took him. And also, you know. I just don't think Dick would care more about the supervillains that Damian. But Damian is regarded as a tough kid, he'll be fine no matter what, and he represents a threat to other people (interestingly, something I've seen fans accuse... Bruce of doing to damian? Even though Bruce was much more protective and wasn't worried about Damian killing Nobody when Damian was going with Nobody, or Damian killing the Saturn Club guys when Damian let himself by kidnapped by the Saturn club guys to find civilians to rescue)

But I am analyzing here the actions he does and the words that he says, and what the writer dedicates panel time to. I think it's interesting that Bruce and Dick's similarities with regards to Robin getting injured involve emotionally removing themselves from the situation and focusing on cases, and then their differences are in the follow up. Dick often maintains a status quo, which is satisfying to the Robin character (he does not feel like he's being fired or judged) and fits with the conventions of the genre. Bruce often becomes overprotective to a degree where the Robin character feels estranged from him, and is excluded, resulting in alienation from robin and coming across as the "bad guy".

I find it very interesting that Dick avoids repeating mistakes of the past that Bruce made (becoming overprotective of Robin to an alienating degree and firing him) by doing things that would be read as callous or uncaring to the reader if he wasn't Dick, I guess.

P.S. I know some people say this is why they regard Morrison's Dick as OOC, but I didn't have any place to fit that acknowledgement in the above paragraphs, but I think it's important to note that this was not just Morrison's Dick. In general Dick as Batman era was way different than Nightwing Rebirth era Dick or even post 2011 Dick.