Ml Analysis - Blog Posts

Gender Roles in Miraculous Ladybug

Miraculous Ladybug is filled with excellent subversions of gender stereotypes. And no, I'm not just going to say it's feminist, because what I'm talking about is much broader than that. The show is filled with characters that refuse to fit the standard roles their gender lays out for them, both for female and male roles.

Let's start with the most obvious example, Marinette Dupain-Cheng, or Ladybug. It's pretty clear that her character and function in the story revolts against stereotypes of femininity: she is a woman—well, a girl—but she leads her team, which is a traditionally male role. She is the decision-maker, the rationalist, the realist, the one who catastrophizes before she hopes—this is stark contrast to the traditional expectation that women follow and comfort, holding the team up with optism and joy. She is the head, not the heart (that's Adrien). She is driven, strong, determined, and self-assured.

Adrien, too, subverts stereotypes—perhaps more than Marinette, although it's not something you notice immediately like Marinette's subversions. (This is because we're familiar with the patterns of feminist characters, but not the anti-sexism found in Adrien.) At heart, Adrien is arguably the most clasically "feminine" character in the show. On the surface, it's easy to see—he is a model, objectified for his beauty, something that has been done to women for all of history and is still being done today. But it runs deeper, too. He is submissive, mild, willing to bend to other's will—both his father's and Ladybug's, as well as the desires of other people in his class like Chloe and Lila (both of whom are, interestingly, women). His kindness and sensitivity, as well as his role as the heart and support when suited up, all mirror traditionally feminine traits and roles.

And yet, despite all this subversion, neither of the main characters are simply a rebellion against stereotypes. It's clear in Chat Noir's tendency to flirt and his function as a protector, but it's especially evident in Marinette, who doesn't just subvert female stereotypes—she also fulfills them.

Marinette is a leader, a thinker, a pessimist, but she's also interested in fashion and art, both of which are considered feminine. More than that, she's incredibly kind, exemplifying that women can abandon the negative feminine stereotypes of submission and obedience without sacrificing the positives like kindness and selflessness. And finally, she's clearly not a "strong independent woman who don't need no man" because she wants a man. No, she doesn't need a boyfriend, but she wants one. True feminism doesn't mean women throwing aside all romantic relationships, it means not pressuring women either way, into or away from romance. Marinette can be strong and independent while still loving someone and wanting to be loved back.

The characters in Miraculous Ladybug are not governed by stereotypes. They were written to be good, nuanced characters, not feminist characters. Marinette has both feminine and masculine traits, proving that traditional "feminine" values are just as valuable as "masculine" ones. Adrien has both, but far more feminine than masculine traits, demonstrating that masculinity is not superior, and that toxic masculinity is just as harmful as classic sexism.

Miraculous Ladybug didn't say "We need to stop forcing women to be feminine," which is a common and harmful misinterpretation of the feminist vision. It didn't say "We should let women act like men!" or "Femininity is bad! Let's leave it all behind." It said, "Stereotypes—both for men and women—are harmful, and we should let people just be people instead of defining them by their genders." It created a world where there are no traditionally feminine and masculine traits, there are just people traits, and anyone can be anyone.

Hopes for Optygami

Miraculous Ladybug set up a good stakes system in the first three seasons with this simple rule: identities must not be revealed. If they are, there will be dire consequences. Hence, while we don't really believe that our main characters are ever at risk of dying, we can accept that they might someday lose their masks, and that that would be bad. It's a risk that adds real weight to the action and plot. It also justifies the endless identity dance between Marinette and Adrien. But then Miracle Queen happened, and all the heroes except for our main two were outed. We saw no consequences in that episode. We saw no consequences in the NY special, and we've seen no consequences in season four yet, either. This makes the entire narrative feel far less convincing and lowers the tension immensely. Not to mention that it almost completely invalidates how Adrien and Marinette continue to hide their identities from each other. (It doesn't invalidate their secrets completely because we're not going to forget Chat Blanc any time soon, but it still lowers the stakes considerably.) Not only are almost all the superheroes out, but Alya still sometimes runs around as Rena Rouge, despite her identity being publicized. And she knows Ladybug's identity, which we've been told is dangerous, but we haven't seen anything that convinces us it's dangerous. The thing is, we have seen negative consequences of identity reveals. Chloe being akumatized is one instance, and another is Chat Blanc. But the show has done nothing with the biggest large-scale identity reveal so far (the one at the end of season three), which makes the "we must keep our identites a secret" spiel very hard to swallow, and makes the entire plot feel almost risk-free. I hope that Optygami shows us the negative consequences of this large-scale identity reveal, and returns strength to the narrative by doing so. TL;DR: With a few rare exceptions, we haven't seen much to back up the story's constant claim that identity reveals are dangerous. I hope that Optygami will finally show us some of the disastrous consequences of identity reveals, thus adding more weight and stakes to the narrative and justifying Marinette and Adrien's continued secrecy.

This is a fascinating analysis, and it also may have boosted my level of relating to Adrien from a 7/10 up to an 11/10. I'd like to add that I think the fact that Marinette won't press him to take off his mask is actually a good thing, despite the fact that this analysis leans toward it being a problem that needs to be overcome--it allows Adrien to learn to trust her at his own pace (which I believe will happen eventually), instead of being forced into a rather terrifying leap of faith before he's ready. Speaking from experience, a friend who just accepts whatever you show them as the truth tends to be far easier to be honest with than a friend who's constantly questioning your lies. I'd also argue that Adrien's lying isn't deliberate, it's instinctive. It's not that he enjoys lying, it just feels safe and easy for him. Still, this the best ML analysis I've read in a while, and it's absolutely spot-on.

Adrien The Liar

wait. don’t go. I promise this isn’t salt. I have not been hacked. It’s me.

Hear me out.

Keep reading

I need to make notes for my fashion theory class. This is so cool.

Miraculous Hair Style Analysis: Marinette

Full disclosure, I really do like the character designs of Miraculous Ladybug. The characters have clearly recognizable silhouettes and the color palettes used in the designs are used for multiple purposes simultaneously. The color palettes are used to create a clearly recognizable “brand” for each character, and they’re also used to create cohesion or contrast within certain character combinations and they even have symbolism. Hell, I even think the highly criticized villain designs are delightful! Especially the Bubbler.

But, to the main point of this post: this show puts a lot of emphasis on visual storytelling. That’s why the character designs place purpose over what teens would find fashionable. I personally appreciate this choice because it makes the show more timeless than trying to use contemporary fashion would do, and also because I hate it when superheroes show up to fight crime in street wear. Where’s the pizzaz in t-shirts and jeans? (The early 2000s Teen Titans comic is a pet peeve of mine for revamping so many outfits into this.) This purpose is so ingrained into the character designs it’s even visible in the characters’ hairstyles. This analysis is all about picking apart a few of the more standout examples of hairstyles as tools of characterization. First up is Marinette.

Marinette’s hairstyle is a classic girlie girl hairstyle. The twintails go great together with the choice of pink as her primary color, because both traits are attached to femininity and childishness. Miraculous Ladybug is about Marinette growing up, so the childish hairstyle emphasizes her role as a person in need of growing. But that’s not all it symbolizes and this comes together with the other hairstyle Marinette knowingly picks, the bun on the top of her head, that we see in her old school photo in ‘Reflekta’.

The tightly-wound hair bun often symbolises someone who holds themselves back, who is controlled and measured. This is why the primary person we see with this hairstyle is Nathalie, who never has a hair out of place. Miss Bustier’s version of the bun is meant to make her look professional, but the strand of hair escaping from it reveals that she can also be more laid back. Nathalie aims to always remain strictly professional, but Bustier openly cares for her students on a personal level and is very invested in them all growing into the best them they could be.

Marinette is more like Bustier than Nathalie in the symbolism of her hair. Marinette tries to control things (in fact, she’s a bit of a control freak), she can act put together when she knows what she’s doing, like when she’s acting as class president or Ladybug, and Marinette. As an aspiring designer, she probably wants to appear professional and capable. Marinette is also pretty uptight, since the smallest thing going unlike how she planned can make her panic, and that’s important to when the hair comes down.

In ‘Love Hunter’, when Marinette’s hair comes out of its twintails by accident but Adrien still says: “It’s the first time I’ve seen you with your hair down.” “Letting your hair down” is another way of saying “relax”, and this occasion is the first time Adrien has seen Marinette truly unreserved around him since the day they met. Marinette leaving her hair down after Kagami and Adrien compliment her is Marinette letting her guard come down and simply enjoying her time with Adrien and Kagami. It’s only after Kagami and Adrien accidentally remind her that she can’t really understand the things they go through that Marinette ties her hair up again, and, soon after, she leaves the two and runs off because she can’t be her unreserved self around them anymore, constantly second-guessing everything she says or does.

We also see Marinette with her hair down in the split off timeline in ‘Cat Blanc’, when Marinette is so focused on being in love with Adrien and being with Adrien that facing something that challenges that state brings her closer to Akumatization than anything else she’s experienced. I’ve repeatedly stated that my analysis on the themes of ‘Cat Blanc’ is that the episode’s lesson is “easy solutions don’t last”. Because Marinette and Adrien getting together happened so easily in that timeline, Marinette grew careless. It was the classic happily ever after moment, and the story usually ends after the happily ever after, so Marinette wasn’t ready for Gabriel to make his play.

Speaking of Gabriel, as is fitting of Marinette’s foil, Gabriel hairstyle is the typical short-haired version of the uptight-do: it’s slicked back with such care that it looks more like a solid helmet than a hairstyle and Gabriel is never seen without his hair in this style. The message Gabriel’s hair sends is clear: appearances must be kept at all times. Marinette also is overly concerned and conscious over how she might be perceived by others, hence another reason for an “uptight” hairstyle.

Alright, breaking out of my procrastination bubble to finally do:

Alya MTS!

As per usual, the four categories:

1. General Info

2. Personality

3. Key Relationships

4. Character Growth

1. General Info

I kinda feel like I should preface this with a massive “hear me out”, because her character goes in a VERY different direction from most Alyas.

Not only does she only become Marinette’s best friend at the end of season 2 (as both characters have a lot they need to do first), but “Alya the fangirl” isn’t really a part of her MTS character. She still runs a blog, but it probably won’t be titled “The Ladyblog” (which is sad, because that name is ICONIC), because she focuses on the two heroes pretty equally, and doesn’t want to seem “unprofessional”.

Basically, we took the “Alya is sometimes presented as the practical voice of reason character” and “Alya initially wants to find Ladybug’s identity”, along with the MTS LB and CN getting into some mishaps early in their career, and made her much more skeptical and critical of the heroes. She doesn’t think the safety of the city should be placed in the hands of two strange teenagers (she especially doesn’t trust Chat Noir, since his power is pretty dangerous and he’s pretty reckless with it at first) and wants to find out all of their secrets. Is she in the right? Not completely, but she isn’t 100% wrong to have criticisms of the heroes either.

She fills a pretty interesting role in the earlier portion of the show, where she is technically an (initial) antagonist to the heroes, but isn’t a bad person (in fact, she’s fairly altruistic), as a contrast to Chloe (Marinette’s initial civilian antagonist) and Felix (Adrien’s initial civilian antagonist) who are more morally grey/not concerned with doing “the right thing”.

This is also a bit more of a minor note, but while Alya’s family still moved to France from Martinique, they did so much earlier than they did in the original, (likely when Alya was around ten), so she has lived in France for a few years now.

2. Personality

As I mentioned, this iteration of Alya is a bit more grounded, and tries to be logical and mature. She cares a lot about morality, ethics, and safety, with helping people being her top priority. Her fixation on the truth extends to this, as she believes that knowledge is the only way people can take care of themselves. She’s still very passionate, but tries to direct her energy into trying to be a “legitimate journalist” and often forgets to just let herself be a kid.

Her viewpoints do lack a bit of nuance at first, as she doesn’t realize how important secrets can be, and can get a bit too caught up in her own judgments (in hindsight, MTS Marinette is a lot more understanding than her canon counterpart due to her new backstory, while MTS Alya is kind of the reverse). It’s worth noting that a lot of Alya’s more intense traits are amplified by her fear. Having your city bombarded with demon butterfly possessed supervillains with your only source of protection being mysterious animal-themed teenagers with overwhelming power isn’t very good for your mental health.

Because of these fixations, she often struggles with the more “normal teenager stuff” like friendships and romance. Her blunt nature also makes it difficult to socialize, but her earnest, loyal, honest, and slightly awkward demeanor make her quite endearing once you get to know her (this might not be completely essential to one’s understanding of her character, but MTS Alya does fall somewhere on the autistic spectrum).

3. Key Relationships

Marinette: These two have occasionally crossed paths in their more recent years (Nora would frequently take Alya with her to the same gym Kim and Marinette go to together), but never really noticed each other until now. Alya mostly sees Marinette as the kind but nervous girl who sits next to her, and is especially worried about her safety after Alya realizes that her “new best friend” Lila is bad news. Marinette is still pretty nervous about Alya finding out she’s Ladybug (although she’s stopped trying to find out the heroes’ identities at this point). After the two (unknowingly on Alya’s part) take down Lila and stop her villainy, the two become proper friends. Marinette helps Alya get more accustomed to the more casual aspects of being a teenager, and Alya helps Marinette begin to recover from her friendship issues. They help each other let their guard a bit more, despite both being such high strung individuals.

Nino: Unlike the original show, Alya and Nino never have a romantic relationship (no hate on DJ-WiFi, the MTS iterations of their characters just aren’t compatible romantically; believe me, we tried!) but do form a strong bond nonetheless. They do get to a rocky start (as Nino mistakens Rena Rouge for Volpina and tries to take her down as Carapace), but after better understanding each other, they team up and build a friendship. Nino makes Alya realize that she doesn’t have to be responsible for everything 24/7, while Alya shows him the importance of putting more effort into things (besides his brother and heroing). Their differing personalities balance each other really well, and while they aren’t hero partners (Nino’s a lone turtle), they work really well as a team.

Chloe: They start off with a small rivalry (which I alluded to in my Chloe post), but quickly form a common enemy. That, alongside Chloe’s arc about caring for others as an actual hero, and Alya’s arc about being more patient with others, and they have a lot to offer each other. For these reasons (and then being the only two heroes with public identities), they are a superhero duo much like Ladybug and Chat Noir. Though Alya gradually accepts Chloe’s dramatics, she doesn’t tolerate her slacking off or making things about herself during an active threat to the city (has the energy of “she’ll fix herself if she knows what’s good for her”). That being said, she does come to enjoy Chloe’s peppy nature and (surprising) ability to be supportive. (However, Chloe’s attempts to get Alya to take “spa days” with her and “treat herself” are met with a mixed reception!)

Lila: Fox versus Fox, Lila and Alya are full-on archenemies. It starts out with Alya simply getting slightly off-putting vibes from Lila, but when she discovers she’s Volpina (after managing to obtain her miraculous that got lost in a fight), she does everything in her power to get her exposed. Likewise, Lila is doing everything she can to get her miraculous back and ruin Alya’s life while she’s at it. Lila coming off as a sweet girl with a lot of friends while Alya’s initial hostility to the heroes and accidentally jarring personality do stack the odds in Lila’s favor, often leading to severe consequences, but Alya is eventually able to team up with the other heroes to take her down. Though Lila is taken into custody, she manages to escape with a dangerous vendetta against Alya…

Other key relationships include her family (particularly Nora and her mom), the heroes (duh), and Zoe.

4. Character Growth

Her main arc is pretty apparent by now. She generally needs to learn to not jump to extreme conclusions when she doesn’t have all the information, as well as be more accepting that people have their reasons for not sharing everything. The two main sequences that help her learn this are her Alakumatization and the Lila/Volpina experience.

Alya gets akumatized when an akuma she captured (attempting to study it to find more about the source of the problem) escapes and corrupts her. She also tries to end the akumatization when Hawk Moth orders her to potentially endanger civilians, but his control over the miraculous (and her) are too strong. After being deakumatized, Alya is a bit more careful in her investigations, and a lot more willing to hear the heroes out (while Alya doesn’t remember being an akuma, just the knowledge that she was corrupted, and the video footage of her as a villain is enough to rattle her).

When dealing with Lila, Alya tries to take the direct approach, both in trying to publically confront Lila for her crimes and by telling the city that she’s the hero Rena Rouge. This inevitably backfires when Lila manages to use her manipulation to avoid being found out and getting Alya in trouble instead. Lila also teams up with Hawk Moth to target Alya’s family, even managing to get Alya akumatized into Vixen Vermillion at her lowest point. She does overcome this, and becomes a lot more tactical with her knowledge in the future. (Alya’s development into tolerating secrets is completed when she finds out that Nino is Carapace, but keeps his secret). She’ll also rename her blog to “The Miracle Blog” after forming a proper respect and camaraderie for the other Miraculous heroes, and shifts from trying to expose or criticize Ladybug and Chat Noir to simply posting any relevant information needed to keep the public safe (which she was doing in the first place but now it’s more of a focus).

Alya also gets the smaller character progression of relaxing a little more, both because she feels safer with her fellow heroes and due to her new friendships helping her appreciate the smaller things in life.

Conclusion:

And that’s a wrap! I know that she might seem a bit odd for an Alya, and her slightly more difficult tendencies may make it seem like we don’t like her very much, but not only was the shift away from her original character intentional (we realize how different we made her), it was not meant to salt on her in any way. On the contrary, we wanted to give her more of a story as her own character, not basing her entire life to revolve around someone else (heck, sometimes she feels like the deuteragonist to Ladybug and Chat Noir’s co-protagonist statuses!). This is particularly what I mean when I said that us rebooting the characters often drastically changed up their original personalities and roles (like many reboots do). Not to hate on what they were, but to tell a different story.

After this I’ll probably explain the new Tikki and Plagg personalities, roles, and development. Then maybe explain the MTS Love Square after that. Thanks for staying patient everyone!

(One more thing: I’m also releasing Alya’s akuma design shortly after this post, so if you enjoy seeing character designs, I’d recommend checking it out!)

Alright lads (gender neutral), time to start some controversy.

Totally normal and unoriginal take: I think Marinette and Adrien are relatively equal in physical strength. (Not who would win in a fight, the show has shown multiple times that it would be LB, I’m just saying realistically, in terms of exerting one’s muscles).

I often hear arguments that Marinette would be super strong due to being Ladybug, but the same should apply to Adrien, right? Sure he gets blipped out of some fights, but there’s also plenty of fights where he’s present (still physically active) but mind-controlled by the villain of the week. Furthermore, there’s plenty of episodes where Chat Noir has to hold off the villain while Ladybug focuses on problem solving (which requires a lot less physical exertion). Therefore, if Marinette is strong because she’s Ladybug, that alone cannot justify her being stronger than Adrien due to him also being a superhero (her being stronger than her usually-civilian classmates however, I can easily get behind).

I suppose if we’re using the argument that she’s stronger due to doing things like lifting bags of flour in the bakery, then maybe, but the show only has her occasionally helping her parents in the bakery (not that it’s her fault she has other stuff to do, just saying that it doesn’t fully work as a reason for her being physically stronger), and even then it’s usually managing the counter and sometimes baking some of the goods.

There’s also technically the diet factor, as people will say that she’s stronger due to getting to eat normal foods that build muscles better, while Adrien eats smaller meals due to being a model. However, from personal experience (I have a pretty unimpressive diet and sometimes forget to eat three meals a day), my scrawny noodle arms can lift a surprisingly amount to most people, so I don’t think his diet would keep him from being able to do muscle-intensive activities. If anything, I maintain that Marinette and Adrien would have equal physical abilities, Marinette would have more muscle mass (if they didn’t insist on giving her toothpick arms to be more marketable), but Adrien’s muscles would be more pronounced/defined (skinny people’s muscles usually stick out more due to having low amounts of body fat).

On the one hand, I get the “haha little girl wearing pink is actually an absolute unit and stronger than all the boys” joke, but on the other hand, I think I find the “supermodel is actually as strong as baker” joke even funnier. (Like you mean to tell me that the class would underestimate Marinette, their over-achieving “everyday Ladybug”/class rep, more than Adrien, that one rich boy they’ve known for less than a year and constantly typecast as a helpless damsel in distress? I don’t think so.)

I agree with all of this, and I'm adding I complaint I have:

Lila has no goals or motivation.

After her introductory episode, it was easy to defend her lying with Lila being new and struggling to make friends.

And, honestly, that would have been good enough.

But then, Lila appears again and, despite being caught in her lies, she doubles down and keeps lying, for seemingly no reason other than manipulating everyone around her.

Revenge against Ladybug might be a goal, but it seems a bit drastic for getting called out for lying. Especially when she was offered forgiveness by Ladybug and Adrien.

Lila's behavior then escalates from lying to allying with a super villain.

And she apparently has multiple families who know her under different identities, one of whom is a student at another school.

Again, no reason known for Lila to do this, and it has nothing to do with her revenge against Ladybug.

So, Lila manipulates everyone around her, for no known reason.

And since Lila's been around since the end of season 1, she should have a little more backstory by now.

Especially with the latest special, where Lila makes a wish that almost destroys the universe.

What did Lila wish for? What is her goal? Why is she doing this?

No one knows. Hopefully we'll get answers in season 6, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I guess my biggest complaint is that Lila is a plot device, not a character.

And that's just terrible writing.

Miraculous Ladybug Analysis: Why Lila Fails

So for those of you who aren’t new to my blog or fanfics, it should come as no surprise that I despise Lila Rossi from Miraculous Ladybug canon.

I despise her as a person. I despise her as a character. And I despise the very idea that she is in any way supposed to be a credible villain or that her choosing to be an antagonist is supposed to be anyone’s fault but her own. She annoys me in every possible way except for the reasons canon would probably have intended.

But ultimately, if I had to explain my specific issues with her and her character, it’d boil down to four main things:

One, Lila is a plot device.

From the moment she first appears in the story and well into any of her subsequent appearances, Lila’s purpose is to further a plot.

Not THE plot, mind you. Not the central story of the entire series about a supervillain attacking the city which has been dragged out for five seasons now or even the B plot of the love square that is so far removed from a slow burn by this point that the candle has long been extinguished from lack of oxygen.

No, it’s just A plot. And not even a good one. Outside of that specific plot of the day, Lila doesn’t really do anything, even when she arguably should be given the character that canon has presented her as.

And canon proves this is the case because Lila almost literally disappeared off the face of the earth with no explanation for nearly the entirety of season 2 until the finale when they suddenly need her again and say “oh yeah, by the way, she was just hiding out at home the whole time until Hawk Moth was ready to start this specific plan that is reliant on her to be there”. Sure, Gabriel has no way of knowing that Lila would even still be in Paris at that time, but that's the nature of a plot device in that it just works.

Lila appears. She manipulates and it works out. Then once her scheme is completed, she disappears into the ether again with little to no follow up or mention of her in the meantime.

Lila is a plot device and only exists as the plot demands. Which is even more problematic because of the next point.

Two, there is nothing that Lila does that couldn’t have been accomplished by an already established character.

Lila is supposed to be another rival over Adrien and another antagonist character for Marinette on both sides of the mask, which should be fine and even expected in a story.

The problem with that is that Marinette already HAS a rival and antagonist in Chloe, who seems to have everything needed to be a better antagonist. She has the power of wealth and nepotism to use against anyone she doesn’t like and to protect herself from consequences. Even better, she has a direct connection to the male lead that can at least give cause for her to appear to have a chance as a romantic rival as well as a reason for the female lead to not act against her if it would risk upsetting him. In addition, fans have been pegging her as a helper to Hawk Moth since season one, which would have been a potential route for her character—and what ended up happening ANYWAY given the events of Miracle Queen and season 4.

So why even have Lila then? There is nothing Lila brings to the table that is new or unique. She does nothing that couldn’t be accomplished by already existing characters who could fill whatever role she’s supposed to serve and they could do it WITHOUT the plot having to literally turn on its head to make thing work out.

She’s basically like Chloe—there’s no other way to put it. She is a sneakier and less obviously evil Chloe. They both are antagonistic towards the female lead while crushing on the male lead. They both do bad things and get away with it. They both act incredibly juvenile in their expectations and show no real understanding of either accountability or cause and effect. And they both agree to help the big bad just to get back at Ladybug for not letting them have something they feel entitled to with no real concern as to the fallout that would occur even if it should directly affect them.

The only difference is that Chloe at least has an in-universe reason for why she is never stopped. A frustrating reason, mind you, but still A reason.

Chloe gets away with things because she’s rich and her father is the guy running the city. Horrible? Yes. True to life? Arguably. But it’s something confirmed in canon and something we as the audience can see and understand the reason behind.

Lila doesn’t have that. What does she have then? Well, not much, actually.

Three, Lila‘s actions are not intelligent or reasonable.

This one is especially important because canon has been trying to paint it that Lila is some sort of mastermind and supposed to be a credible threat.

But as the writers don’t seem to understand “show, don’t tell”, Lila’s actions don’t really fit with that narrative. She either does things that a master manipulator wouldn’t do, or doesn’t take the obvious actions that one would.

A lot of her actions are poorly thought out:

Claiming to be the best friend of a superhero she know exists to someone she should know follows the exploits of and has had interviews with said hero, and just assumes that the claim will never be brought up if the two should meet again.

Claiming on a major news source to be the best friend of a superhero who is constantly under attack and may thus make Lila a potential target of anyone seeking to harm said hero.

Stealing what is clearly a very old possibly one of a kind book and going so far as to throw it away and just assume that the owner won’t notice or care that it’s missing.

NOT accepting Ladybug’s offer of friendship when the hero is clearly feeling guilty and would put Lila in a prime position to manipulate said hero out of that guilt and make at least one of her lies true.

And that’s just in Volpina. After that, Lila hid away at home for months on end just to sulk in her room over being caught. Which is really pathetic in and of itself, especially when there was no valid in character reason for her to do that instead of anything else, like maybe trying to do damage control.

Let’s remember that only two people knew Lila was lying—the hero she lied about and the crush the hero outted her in front of. Since Lila was clearly still in contact with the classmates during her self-imposed exile, she would have to have known that nobody else was aware of her lies, meaning those two people never told anyone about what she had been doing. Everyone else still believed her.

And of the two who knew, one apologized to LILA after Lila had selfishly lied about and insulted her while the other was still clearly trying to be on good terms with her even if he was disappointed in her for lying. Adrien actually offered to be her friend and only asked her to stop lying.

And Lila doesn’t use that to her advantage. A truly good manipulator can manipulate someone even if that person knows she’s a manipulator. She could have just accepted Adrien’s offer and it would have been a relatively small loss on her part in comparison to what she would have gained. She could have spun a sob story about why she lies and make herself look sympathetic to him so he would more willingly support her—and give her more of a chance to win him over because he would believe that they have a connection that way.

Instead, the master manipulator that Lila supposedly is chose to double down on her earlier lies and pout about how Ladybug is the liar even when it’s obvious that Ladybug wasn’t and even more obvious that Adrien wouldn’t believe her. Before stealing an akuma for herself and using it to frame ADRIEN for nicely asking her to stop lying to him instead of trying to frame Ladybug to him to give her lies more credence.

So each of Lila’s choices don’t make sense with the character that we are told Lila is supposed to be.

If I’m being charitable, I would say she just isn’t a master manipulator.

If I’m being blunt, I would say she’s stupid.

Now, it could be argued that she’s a teenager and doesn’t think things through, except that none of this is ever acknowledged as a mistake by either Lila herself or the narrative.

Lila keeps letting her emotions cloud her judgement. Which is interesting because Marinette is noted to have that as her main character flaw. Except for Marinette, this is actually portrayed as a flaw and something she has to correct and make up for while for Lila, it just somehow always works out in her favor.

Which leads to my next point…

Four, Lila is overly reliant on the plot to function as an antagonist.

If we're looking at things objectively, Lila isn’t smart and her plans aren’t that great. Whatever she schemes only seems to work because the plot requires them to rather than because of any real capability on Lila’s part. It becomes increasingly evident that Lila gets away with things because apparently plot demands that no one is allowed to so much as doubt what she says. They are forced to blindly believe her and follow whatever trail she wants them to, even when they arguably shouldn’t. So no one is able to figure out that she’s a liar aside from the female lead she’s a rival to and the big bad, and the latter of the two has reason to not do something about the giant red flag Lila presents.

This ultimately does less to show how clever Lila is and more to further emphasize the major problem of the series itself that too much of the show is reliant on nobody but Marinette doing anything. Lila’s character especially highlights that issue in that people who SHOULD have noticed Lila’s blatant lies or SHOULD have reason to respond in some way to her actions…don’t. And even in the relatively rare instance when they do, nothing comes of it.

We clearly see Damocles trying and failing to reach Lila’s mom about her unexplained extended absence in the Heroes Day finale, but this is never brought up again when she returns. Damocles himself seems to forget about it when he reappears to interact with Lila in the “Ladybug” episode. It also shows a giant disconnect between the Principal and the teachers in that we clearly see Bustier setting up a video call with Lila—so apparently Damocles isn’t aware that Bustier has direct contact with Lila and may know why she’s supposedly missing school and Bustier isn’t aware that Lila has been skipping school and that the administration hasn’t been able to make contact with her student’s family? Maybe Lila is “just that good”, but that speaks more of a level of ineptness in the school that we as the audience aren’t supposed to be seeing.

Most of Lila’s plots work out this way. She can outright manipulate people and have evidence of that manipulation be present for all to see, but nobody reacts. We don’t see Nino respond to the mass text of that picture Lila took of herself kissing Adrien after she told Nino she wasn’t interested in him. We don’t see Alya at any point connect the dots that if Marinette is Ladybug, then Lila would have to have been lying. They just seem to forget the clearly suspicious things they’ve witnessed and immediately jump to defend Lila as the plot requires. This makes no sense for these characters and it makes no sense for the plot.

As such, given the combination of these issues, I dislike Lila in Miraculous Ladybug not because she’s “evil”, but because she acts stupidly and is entirely reliant on plot armor. It’s even worse that the narrative is trying to TELL me that she is smart and an evil mastermind when it’s only SHOWING me otherwise. And the biggest problem is that for all her obvious objective failings, she doesn’t actually face any real loss because the narrative bends over backwards to ensure she somehow attains victory in any episode she appears.

As it stands, I would say that Lila’s only real ability is her apparent power to dumb down anyone she comes in contact with if the show didn’t already do that without her.

Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?

Good heavens, no.

Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.

I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.

...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.

But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.

Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?

Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.

So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing. This ultimately seems to make his problems Ladybug’s fault then because the problem would be solved if she gives in to his wants rather than by any real effort on his part.

Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.

But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.

It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.

Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.

Adrien...

...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?

...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?

...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?

...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.

...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?

...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!

But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...

...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.

...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.

...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.

...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.

...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.

...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.

Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.

And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.

Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.

Do you think people cling on too much to Adrien's high road advice as a reason to salt on him?

Yes, especially when there are plenty of other reasons to salt him that have previously been ignored. But to that end, it DOES serve as the final straw for people after a SERIES of problems that had previously gone unaddressed.

Much like many aspects of the show, Adrien has displayed problematic behaviors that have been overlooked and waved off in the earlier seasons. This is likely or especially due to the way how in each and every incident, Adrien was narratively shown to be correct. In his stance. In his choices. In his behaviors. He was always right. It doesn't matter if he shouldn't be, because he is.

Now unless you're a hater or anti or salter or whatever negative name people tend to get for not liking a story as it's presented, readers and watchers tend to follow along with the narrative as it presents things and how it presents things. It's a common setup in any story. Protagonist Centered Morality, I feel framed best by Susan in the Discord series:

Susan: ...and then Jack chopped down the beanstalk, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and trespass charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused anything if you're a hero, because no one asks inconvenient questions.

Pretty much this. Most people will follow what the narrative says because it's the narrative. If the narrative wants you to focus on Marinette being embarrassed, you're going to focus on how much she's cringe. And if the narrative wants you to view Adrien as a perfect sunshine boy who never does anything wrong, anything he does is going to be framed through that lens and it's difficult to break from that view and call out the times when he is wrong. Not unless he does something particularly severe.

It should be noted that outside of Chameleon, Adrien had, among other things: lied to his partner, caused someone to get akumatized and had his partner take the blame, was messing around during life-threatening and city-threatening situations, did nothing as Chloe tormented people right in front of him, DEFENDED Chloe after she tormented people right in front of him, bailed on an event with friends to set up a date with someone who said she had other plans and then got mad at HER for it, tried to flirt or confess in the middle of an active crisis which took necessary attention away from said crisis, caused himself AND his partner to get hit by akuma powers and needlessly be taken out of commission.

And yet people could mostly overlook these instances. They weren't his fault. Chloe is his friend. Marinette is worse. He's just a kid. He has a tragic backstory. So on and so forth. Easy to overlook. Easy to ignore in favor of the Sunshine Boy setup people were given and want to believe in.

But there were three major instances that really grabbed people's attention and stayed:

His attitude in Frozer. It probably wouldn't have been so bad except this rejection already happened in Glaciator, where he was supposed to have learned a lesson and accepted just being Ladybug's friend and now apparently didn't, despite it happening earlier that very season. Then in response, he decides to date Kagami as a rebound, drags Marinette with him on his date (without realizing how he's asking his friend to be a third wheel on a DATE) and focuses on her when he's supposed to be with Kagami, throws another tantrum in the middle of an akuma fight and refuses to work with his partner when the city is literally frozen, and requires Ladybug to apologize to him for hurting his feelings before he finally working with her. Again. But okay, he's a teenage boy in love. Not used to rejection and got his feelings hurt. Lovesquare is endgame so of course it'll work out anyway, so it's not like this bump in the road is really going to matter long term so we shouldn't hold it against him. Fine. Dumb, but fine. We've forgiven it in other shows and other poorly done teen romances, we can forgive it here.

His behavior in Syren in which he demanded to know secrets from people when the secrets were not theirs to tell him, and went so far as to attempt to blackmail his kwami (which was funny) and threaten to quit and abandon the Ring that the big bad is after while the city is flooded and people were trying to not drown (which was decidedly less humorous). But it was played for wholesome when Plagg reassured him and he got what he wanted by Fu revealed himself even if Adrien did nothing to actually show he earned it, so all's well that ends well, I guess? And people could justify it because "they're partners" and "part of a team" and "she should trust him" and "it's not fair he's the only one left out of the loop" and "he has a right to know" and just general "Fu is an idiot" (which is admittedly hard to argue). So people were disgruntled, but most were willing to overlook it.

His holier than thou lecture to Marinette in Maledictator over everyone being happy Chloe was leaving. When all Marinette was doing at the time was watching everyone else have fun. When Adrien specifically guilted Marinette and not any of the other actual partiers involved who were literally throwing a party over his friend leaving and probably should have warranted a lecture more than the girl just standing there. When the girl in question was also Chloe's main target and out of everyone had valid reasons to be happy that her bully won't be around to bully her anymore. When Adrien himself has historically been present to witness Marinette being targeted including twice he witnessed Chloe attempt to steal from Marinette, once he witnessed her try to blackmail Marinette, and numerous other times when she actively caused harm to Marinette and others. When Adrien then proceeded to sit in a corner and pout rather than do anything else or just leave if the party really bothered him. When Adrien, if he really cared so damn much, could have gone after Chloe himself! Or y'know...have stood up for Chloe earlier when she got upset in the first place. But fine, okay, Chloe is his childhood friend. So maybe he's just being biased and oblivious to the fact that his "friend" is a horrible person. But people can excuse and justify it in that they are friends and friends support each other, and the longer someone is friends with someone else, the harder it is to break from them. And that Marinette was probably just the target of his lecture because she was the one there in the moment (and the only one who would listen without arguing). And her calling Chloe useless was "mean" despite it being quite frankly the least of what she could have said about her in the moment (coughcough theft cough blackmail cough punished the entire school cough TRIED TO CRASH A TRAIN AND NEARLY KILLED HER AND HER PARENTS COUGH-FREAKINGCOUGH). Fine. Childhood friend means Adrien supports her in all her horrible and even deadly actions. Frustrating, but again, able to be explained and you can see where he's coming from.

These are all things that definitely got Adrien some side eye at best and some detractors at worst.

BUT if you really think about it, all of these examples are objectively worse than his lecture to Marinette in Chameleon. Not accepting being told "no" and continuing to chase a girl who isn't that in to him (while leading on another). Putting lives at risk over personal wants that could quite honestly wait until AFTER the crisis is over. Defending someone who is harmful and guilt tripping the victims. Compared to those, telling someone to leave a liar to their lying seems relatively minor.

So why this? Why here? Why is it Chameleon that has people saying enough is enough? Why is it this episode that is causing the sunshine boy to be so tarnished and the subject of salt in fan fiction?

Because this is the time when it couldn't be rationalized. There wasn't even a valid sensible canon-based reason for his stance. The arguments that Adrien "knew confronting her wouldn't work" or that he "handled her like paparazzi" or that he "knew Marinette previously failed when she tried" (even though he wasn't there and didn't know) or that he "didn't think anyone would believe him" don't come from canon. Those were fan arguments made after the fact to justify him after the base was broken and the outcry became too much to ignore.

This case didn't have any of the ties or rationales of the previous incidents. Adrien wasn't defending himself or his place in a partnership. He wasn't fighting for his love or his dream or an outcome he wanted and that we all knew was coming. He wasn't defending a friend like he did with Chloe—I mean, it's pretty evident he doesn't even really know or like Lila at this point, and for all intents and purposes, this is apparently only the second day he actually had any interaction with her. There was no notable reason Adrien really had for why he essentially chose to protect Lila over literally anyone else as she wasn't a friend and it wasn't in his interests to protect her from a consequence that wouldn't hurt her short term as much as it would likely harm everyone else long term.

And yet, he still defended her and her freedom to lie. Over Marinette. Over Ladybug. Over his friends. Over any sense of right and wrong he seems to have no problem throwing around when it comes to Marinette/Ladybug. Which seems like he targets her 9 times out of 10 compared to pretty much anyone else by this point. So it's little wonder then that people who didn't already hate the lovesquare because of the cringe factor from Marinette started to hate it for being incredibly unhealthy given that their relatively limited interactions tend to involve him lecturing her for failing to live up to his double standards that only seem to apply to her in any given situation.

This incident by itself doesn't seem like much, but when looked at as part of the series as a whole, it's when people couldn't keep overlooking this trend. Where he seems to admonish the wrong person. Where he acts like a mouthpiece rather than a person. Acts like a brat but is treated as though he has no accountability in the situation he causes. Where he is wrong but no one and certainly not the narrative acknowledges it (not until season five and two seasons later when it doesn't matter and he's still not the one facing consequences for it).

And it's not like he actually follows the stances he himself promotes. In Chameleon, canon presents him with this idealistic stance that Lila could change if given a chance, except he doesn't give her a chance. He doesn't push her to be a better person. He doesn't support her to be the better person he insisted to Marinette she could be. He also doesn't do anything or warn anyone when she keeps lying and actively harms the people he says he cares about. He doesn't do anything one way or the other other than some lackluster encouragement to stop lying and a warning that goes nowhere. It just further gives credit to the argument that Adrien either simply doesn't care about other people, or that he doesn't care for Marinette specifically. Neither is conducive to the lovesquare or the increasingly tarnished view of the "sunshine boy".

And it could have worked. Canonically and intrinsically to his character. His idealism and trust in the wrong person comes back to bite him. He learns and grows from it. Except that, much like with nearly everything he does in canon, Chameleon set it up that Adrien was the writers' mouthpiece and thus was not "wrong". I'll grant that they did have him admit it and apologize to Marinette for it two seasons later, but it is pretty evident that during Chameleon, they intended his lecture to be right, with no foreshadowing and no implication otherwise. And I'm fairly certain they only backtracked and had him do that much because of the amount of fan outrage over the episode.

So yes, I think his lecture in Chameleon was really a final straw since unlike Chloe, Adrien has NO relationship with Lila to justify his defense of her. Especially when the argument is in favor of letting her lie to the people he's supposed to care about. That combined with how jarring it was how most of the class just sided with Lila over the seat issue in the first place, and I think people were less inclined to just ignore the problems in the episode specifically and with the series as a whole as they were compared to the first and second seasons. Not just with Adrien, as we see that Alya also started getting more callout and salt since then as well as more retrospective scrutiny over her behavior in earlier seasons.

But yeah...Chameleon was where things seemed to take a 180, so it's bound to be the deciding episode and deciding incident that sticks out in people's minds with these characters. That's probably why it ends up the go-to for salt and complaints on the characters involved instead of any of the other incidents that would arguably warrant it more.