Sir Kay - Blog Posts

(Source: Ridder Metter Mouwen)

Oh, come on! Really?!! Guinevere is Kay's niece in this story?!!

Cath Palug's Power Level (& Kay's)

(Source: Pa Gur yv y Porthaur)

Here is the excerpt portraying the hero Cai ap Cynyr, later known as Sir Kay, defeating the dreaded monster, Cath Palug (meaning "Palug's Cat" or "Clawing Cat").

And it's a pretty fearsome beast - over 180 in a single night died to it before Kay came to kill it himself. But reviewing it for a bit I noticed the translation says "Nine Score Chieftains" and I thought "wait does this mean a hundred and eighty war leaders and not simply champions? Does that mean Cath Palug also killed their retinues?".

In the history of Welsh Warfare, the Teulu (meaning "family"), was an important and primary element of Military power, being the personal household guard under the patronage of a Welsh lord. The size of these Teulu warbands, depending on the wealth of a chief, could range anywhere from 50 to 120 warriors. (Llywellyn ap Gryffyd had a teulu of 160 men)

So, I took a close look at the original Welsh text:

...and identified the words being translated are "kinlluc" and "kinran"

Afterwards, I went over to the online Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru/A Dictionary of the Welsh Language (HERE) to clarify their meaning:

So yes, the poem is referring to 180 war leaders getting slaughtered overnight by the monster cat. But, the implication here is that, reasonably and common sense-wise, the chieftains brought along their warbands to hunt a wild animal.

This means, if we choose to interpret the poem saying Cath Palug killed both the chiefs AND their teulu (around say a hundred warriors each), then we are looking at anywhere up to 18,000 warriors and their leaders being massacred by Cath Palug in a single night.

Which gives us a sense of scale of how powerful Cath Palug and its slayer, Sir Kay, must have been.

(Probably still not as powerful as Arthur, given his battle with Twrch Trwyth...)

what do you love most about kay which you would love to see in a story, like what would you find would make a good depiction of sir kay into a great depiction of kay

In order for Kay to be adequately sharp-tongued he needs to be sharp-minded.

Far too many Kays in retellings are just mean or crass in the basest sense. Phobic, cussing, and frankly come off as a dumb bully with no depth. Even when medlit Kay borders on a bully, he’s never stupid. He needs to be clever enough to have a quick clap back, to invent a witty nickname on the spot, call out Gawain or Gareth or Lancelot on their hypocrisy when no one else will.

Unintelligent Kay holds no interest for me and it’s a lazy way to write him that’s become all too common (not on tumblr, thankfully). It started with The Sword in The Stone (1963) movie and it’s gotten worse from there.

Other than that, I want to see Kay resembling his Mabinogion characterization with the powers and stuff. He does have Otherworld powers in the Lavinia Collins books, but then, that requires reading the Lavinia Collins books but I don’t recommend whatsoever. There are many historical fiction examples from Henry Treece or Edward Frankland, but they don’t have magic. I want the magic!

Additionally I want Kay who is both Arthur’s foster brother and his seneschal, simultaneously. This is more common in books, retellings are pretty good about that. Movies are slacking! Only a handful where he gets to be both!!

Lastly I want his close relationship with Bedwyr restored. Again, there are a decent amount of retellings I could point to as examples that do a great job with that. But I want Gawain too! And Lancelot! And Guinevere! And Ragnelle! Even Gareth!! The dream team. Kay can’t just be this outsider with no friends, that’s not true to medlit at all. They love him! Arthur loves him!!!!! SHOW IT TO ME!!!

This type of Kay is definitely here on tumblr. Seems bloggers understand the assignment! I see this Kay frequently in art and stories passed around here and that’s great. I’ve also attempted to include this sort of Kay in my books. But I want even more of him! He is the character ever!!!

lament for sir kay by me. thinking about him always. i can't imagine having my younger brother become king and. like. just. what the fuck. i love him. no one understands him like i do.

Maybe I should be asking why poisoning is so common there that Kay feels the need (and has the means) to provide poison-proof cups which can feel anger, or how the silver is on fire, and I am now, but the first question which came to my mind was, "What is in the blue stew?" Blueberries? No, that would be indigo or just plain purple. I can't think of any means of dyeing food blue which they would have had in the Middle Ages. Was there some lost technique? Is that one of Kay's powers? If anyone has insight on this one, be it scholarly or humorous, please let me know.

I really appreciate that the Alliterative Morte Arthure is giving Kay a solid 45 lines to go full batshit mad scientist on his feast preparations, featuring

Peacocks, plovers, pork, porcupine, herons, swans, beef, wild boar, barnacle goose, young hawks in bread, cranes, curlews, rabbits

By my rough count, approximately eight different kinds of wine

On-fire blue stews ("wavy with azure sauce all over, they appeared to be flaming")

More fire: "pheasants adorned in flaming silver"

Poison-proof gold cups: ("So that if any poison should go secretly under them [in the cup],/The bright gold would burst all to pieces with anger,/Or else the poison should lose its power because of the virtue of the precious stones")

Funny story. Due to a very strange series of events, a number of people are now convinced that I'm the reincarnation of Sir Kay. This is not a joke. I'm not really sure what do with that or how to explain the strange stuff which happened. So, yeah. I can imagine it.

Reincarnation aus are funny to me because like. Imagine finding out that you’re the reincarnation of a medieval knight, brought back to save mankind in its darkest hour etc etc. But then you find out that you’re fucking like. Sir Gaheris. Absolutely mid-tier ass knight. Like what do you do with that.

do any of my beautiful mutuals know if kay is called cai wyn anywhere other than in culhwch and olwen? what does wyn mean?? is it a surname or an epithet or like a place of origin or something?

A few things which are “canon” somewhere for people who are worried they’re stretching it too far

Arthur was killed by a giant cat.* 

Arthur killed the cat.

Arthur didn’t fight the cat. Kay did.

Kay and Bedivere use salmon as taxis. 

Lucan is half giant, half lion. (This Lucan, Lucano in the original Italian, is evil and not related to Bedivere). 

King Arthur raided the land of the dead.

The human knight Caradoc Briefbras has three half siblings: a dog, a horse, and a pig.

A large portion of Arthur’s troops was killed a while before Badon by his nephew’s attack ravens in self-defense. Arthur and said nephew were playing chess at the time and neither did much to stop it. [Edit: before Badon, not Camlann, which has apparently already happened despite Arthur and Mordred being alive]

Merlin retired peacefully and went to live in the countryside with his also-magic sister Ganieda, Taliesin, and another of their friends. [Edited]

Wherever Arthur walks, plants die. They don’t grow back for years.

Arthur had a spunky (half?) brother who died in battle after making a mysterious oath.

Dagonet is more or less able to run the kingdom when Arthur is gone. His biggest error is overspending on mercenaries.

Guinevere has an evil almost identical twin half-sister.

Hector beat up all the best knights except for Galahad while possessed by a demon.

Gawain plays tennis.

Gawain has used a chessboard as a weapon.

Near the start of his reign, Arthur left Lot in charge of the kingdom and went on a quest with a sassy parrot.

Gawain or Galahad succeeded Arthur as king.** 

*Whether or not this is canon anywhere is a somewhat meta matter. André de Coutance complains that the story that Chapalu/Cath Palug killed King Arthur and conquered England is a slanderous lie while also implying it's widely circulated. He's saying that it's canon in other places and also that it's wrong. As far as I know, no other text mentions a tradition where the cat kills the king.

**Not in different texts--Bhalbhuaidh is either Irish Gawain or Irish Galahad.

really love dynamics that are like 'it honestly doesn't matter if you view them as romantic or platonic, the point is that they love each other. the type of love is inconsequential, all that matters is that it's there'. gotta be one of my favorite genders.

for the ask game, 💚💛😤🗡️ !!!

I started writing this and realized that my quest/story arc answer could also work for the sibling dynamic one and vice versa, so the first two are both for both.

I’m very fond of The Story of the Crop-Eared Dog—which is to Arthurian lit what Lilly Onakuramara is to the Barden Bellas, only less important—and its weird anticlimax in which the sidekick shows up and reveals that he’s achieved their key goals by killing a vast number of people, including all of the naked monks on the Island of Naked Monks, then defeating but sparing the main antagonist. (The antagonist—the Knight of the Lantern, henceforth known as Lanny—is Alastrann’s—the sidekick’s—younger half-brother. Alastrann’s earlier speeches concerning Lanny can be briefly summarized as, “My baby brother is sooo talented and amazing, but he destroys everything he touches, so I’m going to kill all his friends and steal his stuff and hope that solves the issue.” Somehow, this works). There’s a lot more to unpack there, but it’s a complicated mess. A charming complicated mess.

Arthur’s sudden ascent to greatness, and the barriers that likely creates between the (formerly unwitting) foster brothers, has its own sort of pathos, but their dynamic in Cullwch and Olwen is heartbreaking and seems to get overlooked. (They aren’t referred to as brothers or foster brothers there, but I’ll count it anyway). They have a falling out over an extemporaneous song with which Arthur ridicules Cai’s tactics on a specific killing errand. It might be meant as a joke, but it angers Cai so much that he leaves, never to return or aid Arthur again. The twist is this: it’s already been said that when Cai is killed, Arthur avenges him by killing not only his killer but also his killer’s brothers. Arthur’s vengeance is brutal and unfair and a mark of extreme grief; clearly, he never stopped caring about his friend/brother, even though he was never able to make up with him in life. 

Your Most Specific Nitpick About Your Fave (anything from "Gareth would not have a beard" to "this is basically a different guy"):

One of my faves is Dinadan, and an adaptational/fandom nitpick of mine is when he gets shipped with random people. I personally headcanon him as aroace. There are some texts where I can understand reading him as being gay and having feelings for Tristan, but writing about, say, him and Mordred makes no sense to me and I find it aggravating. Aroaces (and aspec people in general) have such little representation as it is.

Who Are You Betting On In This Month's Tournament?

Assuming that Lanny is out of town, I’ll place a small bet on Dinadan. He doesn’t win often, so I could get great odds for him, and when he does win, it’s very funny. I also really like Dinadan.

May I just say, non-condescendingly, that I love how we’re all such nerds about these characters that we take weird, obscure tidbits, like Kai’s laundry list of superpowers (which upwards of 99% of everyone everywhere will never know or care about), for granted as common knowledge.

hello. i was wondering sumn. what makes a knight of camelot ~A Knight of Camelot~? there are so many of them and they’re all different but do they have characteristics in common that are found in the average Famous Knight of Camelot and that when you see you think “ah yes that is very arthurian of them”. i hope my question is not a bother to you and too confusing.

Hi! Like every other answer I ever give, it’s highly dependent on the text.

In the Mabinogion, Arthur’s best knights tend to have special abilities, even magical powers. We all remember Kai’s fun list of attributes.

But generally speaking, fame in Camelot comes from 3 things:

Every successful knight is hot. I don’t make the rules.

They have to be good at beating the snot out of other guys. Obviously.

Branding. I’m so serious.

My basis for this comes from the Vulgate descriptions of the Orkney Bros. Specifically, Gaheriet/Gaheris. Not because he’s famous, but because he isn’t.

It’s no accident that Gaheris never makes it to the big screen the way his brothers do. He is, by design, basic. The quintessential middle child. He doesn’t have a Special Trait (such as Gawain’s courtesy or reputation as a ladies man or noontime powers etc.) and that makes Gaheris forgettable. To be a famous knight, you gotta put your whole pussy into it, in front of a live studio audience, or you won’t be famous no matter how good you are. Makes sense when you think about it!

Not sure if that answers your question, but that’s what I got. Take care. :^)

From what I’ve seen, Kay/Gaheris sometimes seems to go along with Balan/Bedivere, which could point to whatever source material there may be or be a testament to the lack thereof.

I’ve seen a few writers on Ao3 shipping Kay with Gaheris, which strikes me as a little random, though I haven’t read much about Gaheris and could be missing something. What do you think the rationale/source material behind that ship is?

i have legit no idea anon ive seen it too and i do not understand my only guess is that they interacted in an adaptation ?? if anyone knows tell me im curious now

Sir Kay is what happens when the Planeteers put together their rings without Ma-Ti

Kwame: Earth!

Wheeler: Fire!

Linka: Wind!

Gi: Water!

Kwame: Uh, didn’t we forget someone?

It is too late. They watch in confusion as a figure in antiquated armor rises from the ground.

Kay: With your powers combined, I am Sir Kay!

Linka: Who are you?

Kay: I am one who may endure Fire and Water like no other and grow as tall as the treetops.

Gi: We were trying to summon Captain Planet. Not that we’re not glad to see you. Um. Will you still fight with us?

Kay: Yes, but I will complain constantly and bully the younger ones.

Kwame: Heart. We forgot Heart. HOW ON EARTH DID WE FORGET HEART?!?

A few hours later…

Wheeler: Has it ever occurred to you that you’re a jerk?

Kay: Has it ever occurred to you that you’re me?

Sir Bedivere (left) and Sir Kay (right) I've been a fan of these two since their Culhwch and Olwen days back in about the 11th–12th century.